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Steve
Home Owner
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 169
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 Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: Re: My take |
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| unholyghost2003 wrote: |
I don't think that renewal depends on the plot, I worry that the plot reflects the likelihood of renewal. A fully open plot line shows an expectation of renewal, a closed plot line shows an expectation of cancellation. |
Considering that you wrote earlier:
| unholyghost2003 wrote: |
... the basic plot outlines for each episode were written prior to the strike.
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You are saying it yourself. The plot was already fixed before the second season went on air. At that moment, it wasn't decided if they would renew or not, as they had no clue how the second season would do.
I rather believe that the weak cliffhanger is a result of the writer strike and the producers cutting the season short to only 7 episodes. The 13th episode would surely have had a stronger one.
I believe the show will be renewed. It is original and funny and doesn't cost the world to produce.
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unholyghost2003
Renter
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| sorry. I guess I spoke/typed w/o fully engaging my brain.
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Orbert
Renter
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| unholyghost2003 wrote: | | Eddie says "Well, obviously, it's seven episodes because of the strike. I think the writers were obviously aware of this beforehand, and so we built a sort of cliffhanger halfway through the season." |
Excellent! That is exactly what I was looking for.
Also, I don't see any contradiction in your comments regarding renewal/cancellation and how it affects or is affected by script/plot. Sure, if it's known or expected that a show will be cancelled before the last episode is written, I'd hope that the writers would bring about some closure. If it's totally up in the air, however, you pretty much have no choice but to presume that things will continue, and write the show the way you write the show.
Here's a wacky thought: Remember when TV shows didn't have season-ending cliffhangers? In fact, when shows become less episodic and actually started having story arcs that spanned multiple episodes, they still wrapped things up at the end of each season. Possibly taking a cue from British television, where each season is referred to as a "series". Here in the U.S., the show "Dallas" introduced the idea of the cliffhanger, and the suits, seeing how much demand can be generated by the created buzz, jumped all over it. Nearly all dramas have them now. I don't know about sitcoms, since I don't watch any.
Hmm, I don't remember now where I was going with this. Maybe I'll think of it later.
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Doug Rich, Esq.
Gypsy
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| unholyghost2003 wrote: | | Yup, Cael did call Dahlia's phone with Quinn's phone. The only non-error reason for Quinn calling Wayne's phone after Cael made the call to Dahlia that I can think of is that Dale gave Quinn Wayne's number, Quinn didn't need Cael to get the numbers. Quinn waited until that point to use the number he had for Wayne because until that point Quinn wasn't certain that Cael wouldn't cut and run. After Cael, helped Quinn break-up the fight, toasted Traveler unity with him, and took Quinn's advice about his family, Quinn could feel pretty confidant that Cael isn't going to take off and Quinn has his emotional hooks firmly in Cael. Quinn wouldn't make a threatening call to Wayne about "having [Wayne's] son" while Cael was awake because then Cael would be certain that he is just a pawn to Quinn and might run. |
Long time reader, first time commenter - unholyghost: your insights on this site are excellent but I don't think this fully explains it. When Wayne picks up the phone he starts talking like he is talking to Cael (can't remember exactly what he said but it certianly indicated this). Why would he think that if it is Quinn's phone number? Only explanation I can think of is that the area code was from the Traveler camp's area so he figured it had to be Cael. But then again, couldn't it be Dale -- calling from outside? asking for help jumping his truck? -- or others?
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Dahling
Mansion Owner
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Doug Rich, Esq. wrote: | | Long time reader, first time commenter |
Welcome!
| Quote: | | When Wayne picks up the phone he starts talking like he is talking to Cael (can't remember exactly what he said but it certianly indicated this). Why would he think that if it is Quinn's phone number? Only explanation I can think of is that the area code was from the Traveler camp's area so he figured it had to be Cael. But then again, couldn't it be Dale -- calling from outside? asking for help jumping his truck? -- or others? |
Great catch! You are right - Wayne picks up the phone and says, "Where the hell have you been...?" So, I would think he was expecting Cael on the other end of the line? I suppose the other choice could be Dahlia. Either way, I am not sure how Quinn could have done it. Unless, after Cael threw his phone in the water, someone was right there to fish it out again fast. That would explain Wayne's way of answering the phone and why Quinn had his phone number.
Any thoughts?
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Orbert
Renter
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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My thoughts? Someone screwed up.
Cael threw his phone away early in his journey. I'm not positive, but I think it was before Wayne said something to Dale about it in the office, and even so, it would be quite a stretch that Dale would have had time to contact Quinn, and Quinn put someone out there to find Cael, succeed, follow him, retrieve the cell phone, and the thing still works.
But the way Wayne answers the phone, it's as though he's seen Cael's name or number on the display. Did he glance at the display before answering?
He may also have been mad and just assumed it was Dahlia calling, since no one else would be calling at that hour. If he was expecting Dahlia to call, he would react the same way. But if he did glance at the display before answering, it would've been a totally unfamiliar number. Also, they all got their cell phones after "becoming" the Riches, so the area code would be for wherever Eden Falls is, not wherever Quinn's service is out of, although I guess it's possible that they're the same.
So the best probable answer is that he didn't look at the display, assumed it was Dahlia, and answered accordingly. Wouldn't a more appropriate question be "Where the hell are you?" rather than "Where the hell have you been?"
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susan
Traveller
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I assumed he thought it was Dahlia calling. He doesn't really check the phone display before answering.
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unholyghost2003
Renter
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Doug Rich, Esq! You make me blush! 
I think you, Orbert et all who said "MISTAKE!" are right. I said the only way I could think of for it to have not been a mistake, and that was weak. I think the writers either screwed it up, or we were supposed to assume that Cael also called Wayne, I think any way you slice it it is a stretch.
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Dahling
Mansion Owner
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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I guess, you guys are right, it's simply a plot hole. We know that they were writing/finishing this episode minutes before they "had to go on strike". And with so much going on in any given episode and storyline, I can see how something could have been overlooked.
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Dian55
Traveller
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Hey, everyone, let's just pray that we get a renewal so we can do all this over again! And at last we know Grandma has smoked SOMETHING in her day 
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Orbert
Renter
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 29
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ha ha, that was just about my favorite part of the episode. Once Nina lit up, you could see Grandma looking over at her, and her hand just starting to make something like a reaching motion, while Wayne and Nina were talking.
Sure, she coughed. But most people do if it's been a while since the last time they smoked. That's okay, that makes her cooler in my book. You're right, it does more or less prove that she's smoked in the past. That "ooh, pass it over" look was the genuine look of an experienced toker.
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